loginregister  
Vineyard Church North Phoenix

Vineyard Church North Phoenix | What about "Soul Sleep"?

transforming ordinary people into extraordinary followers of christ

What about "Soul Sleep"?

What do you think about "soul sleep"? I'm sure you know, but it is something that Seventh-day Adventists believe, that when we die our soul dies or goes to sleep and sits their unconscious until Jesus comes. It doesn't sound right, but then I read that Martin Luther was a believer in this (and I always thought he was a pretty smart guy, but then again everything i know about him is from a 'made for tv movie' about him).

Adam

The clear teaching of Scripture is that souls of believers go immediately into God’s presence (2 Cor. 5:8, Phil. 1:23, Hebrews 9:27, Hebrews 12:23, Luke 23:43 and elsewhere) which means that the doctrine of “soul sleep” is incorrect. We always need to look at unclear verses in the light of clear verse to keep from falling into theological error.

The doctrine of “soul Sleep” teaches that when believers die they go instantly into a state of unconscious existence, until Christ returns and awakens them to eternal life. This doctrine has been taught occasionally by one person or another, including Martin Luther. Luther used this idea when arguing against the idea of purgatory and the worship of saints. As you stated, Martin Luther was a “pretty smart guy” but here while trying to correct bad theology, he embraced some of his own. One of John Calvin’s first writings was a tract against this doctrine. This doctrine has never found wide acceptance in the church.

Support for this doctrine has generally been found in the fact that Scripture several times speaks of the state of death as “sleep” or “falling asleep”. This metaphor is meant to show that death is only a temporary state for the believer. The metaphor of sleep is sometimes incorrectly understood as we will be unconscious, or dream or wake up in heaven with morning breath (I have never actually heard that last teaching).

Some arguments against the doctrine of “soul sleep” are:

  • In Luke 23:43 Jesus tells the thief that “Today you will be with me in Paradise”, this wouldn’t be correct if the thief first had to “sleep” for several thousand years. The idea of “paradise” would not have been an unconscious state but a place of great blessing and joy.
  • Paul in Phil. 1:23 says; “My desire is to depart and be with Christ”, he certainly is suggesting that he would be with Christ upon departing.
  • Hebrews 12:1 says that we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses. How is this possible it they aren’t “awake”?
  • Hebrews 12:22-24, tells us that when we worship we not only come into the presence of God, but also the Angels, and to the “assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven”. This is strange language if all of the “saints” are sleeping.
  • Revelation 6:10 talks about martyrs who are crying out to God about when they will be avenged. “Are they talking in their sleep?

These and many other passages deny the doctrine of “soul sleep”, and it is clear from the Bible that the souls of believers experience conscious fellowship with God in heaven immediately upon death.

Tom Quaid

comments

So where does your Soul go when you're unconscious or in a coma? Surely if in physical death the Soul is conscious then why isn't it conscious when one is in a coma?
posted by Gary Atkins on February 4, 2008
I would say that a soul, or spirit, for that matter don't go anywhere until death. For instance even in a coma there is brain activity, although at a much harder to measure level.

I would highly suggest picking up a systematic theology book (these books take different aspects of the faith and evaluate what scripture has to say about them) and reading what they have to say about soul/spirit/body. They can do a much better job at explaining this then I can in this limited space. My favorite is Wayne Grudem's book "Systematic Theology".

posted by TomQuaid on February 6, 2008
While I don't personally claim the belief of Soul Rest, I think it's a bit irresponsible not to inform the person asking this question, that there are a couple of different CHRISTIAN teachings about what happens to us when we die. What happens when Adam or any other reading hears about the idea of Paradise (being different from Heaven) or The Bosom of Abraham, or of Sheol from the OT or the different "levels" of Heaven; don't you think that could pose more frustration and confusion. I know its hard to answer these BIG questions through a blog, but I think it would have been amazing to have pointed out scripture that supports the ALL different theories and then be able to say perhaps that you personal don't agree with Soul Rest, but choose to follow a different teaching. But to try to speak for the ENTIRE Christian community I think is unfair. (BTW, I thought that we (the Vineyard) followed the teaching of George Eldon Ladd's Kingdom Theology.)

I guess I just wish that Pastors would admit that on some things, we try the best we can... and on other things we ALL speculate. I know the absolute truth of God and Christ, but can't we all be honest that sometimes we don't have all the answers; that we are chasing after Christ with all our hearts and not having the concrete answer doesn't mean that we're not. After all, knowing exactly what happens the moment we die doesn't change that we as Christ followers get to spend eternity in the presence of Th Almighty!

posted by jess on February 25, 2009
Dear Jess,

Of course you’re correct that oftimes there are more questions than answers in regards to what happens when we die and I would never assume to go beyond what scripture is clear on. My assumption was that Adam had heard the argument for "soul sleep" so I didn't go into much information supporting that idea. I was not in any way trying to give Adam (or anyone reading this) a complete understanding of death, heaven, or eschatology. I was trying to answer the question he posed. For more understanding I directed him to a Systematic Theology book (I recommend Grudem because he does exactly what you suggest; he lays out the different arguments in some depth in debatable issues).

Sorry if you, or anyone else, took this as a know-it-all response, I am very aware of my short-comings as a theologian. I was just trying to answer Adam's question as best I could in the context of a blog and I totally agree that the important thing is that believers will spend eternity with the Almighty!

As to Ladd, we don't follow the teaching of Ladd; per se (we follow the Bible). But we do agree that Ladd's understanding of the Kingdom of God helps us to correctly understand the Bible. As a matter of fact a large part of my answer to Adam came directly from Ladd's book "A Theology of the New Testament" pages 599-600 and from a book he recommends on this topic which is "A Theology of St. Paul" by D.E.H. Whiteley.

posted by TomQuaid on February 26, 2009

add comment

Comments are moderated and need approval (see comment moderation policy)



  
VCNP on Facebook   VCNP on iTunes   VCNP on Twitter

6250 W. Peoria Ave. | Glendale, AZ 85302 | 623.934.4000
© 2006–2009 Vineyard Church North Phoenix
Contact Us | Vineyard USA | Vineyard Music USA
Powered by CHOCOMAN™