Vineyard Church North Phoenix | Ask Vineyard

The new site is fantastic! Love the look. Love the function. Love the logo. I love the community format. Wow!!! EXCELLENT!

I am reading a Life Application Study Bible (NIV)and in chapter 12 it states that Ciaphas was convinced that Jesus needed to be arrested, brought to trial, and sentenced to death but "the Jewish council needed Roman approval before they could carry out the death sentence". Is this true? Would it have been legal under the then existing Roman law if they had not sought the Roman approval but instead executed Jesus without it?

I've written up a short response to this question. You can find it at vineyardnorthphoenix.com/story/618 . Thanks for the question!

If you are taking laws from the OT and applying them as principles for Christians today (ex: the tatoos question), why is tithing not taken as a principle too...the principle to give happily and sacrificially to the church? When looking at the Bible as a WHOLE, not just the NT or just the OT, there is strong evidence that supports Christians are not held to the old ten percent law. So where do we draw the line to differentiate what we apply as principle and what we apply as literal law? Obviously we all eat bacon and trim our beards...

One other question... If God only forgives those who repent and ask for forgiveness, why do we need to forgive others who aren't sorry? In the Bible, does God really tell us to do something He doesn't appear to do Himself? There are so many views on forgiveness and it is confusing.

Dear Anon, Great questions and I'll try to keep the answers relatively short. The Old and New Testament combine to form one book. Often we have to look at intent, such as the statement in 1 Corinthians that says that it is shameful for a man to have long hair (not generally understood to be a universal principle, it is much more likely that Paul was addressing an issue in Corinth as studying the background to the letter will tell you). When considering the Old Testament some people want to ignore any section which contains “The Law”. We do this at our own peril, Jesus didn’t do this, nor did the early church. There are parts that Jesus specifically said no longer apply (for instance clean and unclean foods). The complication comes in areas where Jesus didn’t specifically declare that it was no longer relevant. For instance, the Ten Commandments. They are the cornerstone of “The Law” and yet I don’t know anyone who says they no longer apply. The reason is the principles behind them existed before “The Law” was given.

The tithe was practiced both by the Hebrews and other nations before the Law was ever given. It was called the “King’s Portion” because most nations gave 10% to their King. The Hebrews who acknowledged no king of their own gave the 10% to God. Abraham does this with Melchizedek. You probably know that in the law there were several tithes. A Jew during Jesus’ time gave over 20% a year in several different tithes. Not one time did Jesus do away with the principle of the tithe, but he did fulfill the law. So it makes sense to ignore the other tithes which were mandated by the Law, but not necessarily the “King’s Portion”. Being a student of church history I am aware that the early church wrote at length about this topic and both the tithe being in force and the tithe being no longer in force were considered within orthodox Christianity. Many early Christians were killed for giving their “King’s Portion” to King Jesus, not Caesar. The leading opponent of teaching the tithe said, “Thank God the tithe has been abolished so we are free to give more!” You are exactly correct that we are to be cheerful givers, in not only our money but our lives. I’m sorry I said I would keep it short but it is such an interesting topic. But before I go trim my beard let me try the other question about forgiveness.

The primary point I would make is that when you accept Jesus as your Savior he forgives ALL your sins, past, present and future. Salvation is not a matter of believers trying to confess and repent from every sin they commit before they die. A person is not saved based on whether he/she has confessed and repented of every sin. Yes, we should confess our sins to God as soon as we are aware that we have sinned. However, we do not always need to be asking God for forgiveness. When a person places his faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, all of his sins are forgiven. That includes past, present, and future, big or small. Believers do not have to keep asking for forgiveness or repenting in order to have their sins forgiven. Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins, and when they are forgiven, they are all forgiven (Colossians 1:14; Acts 10:43). What we are to do is confess our sins: “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).

Yes, Christians do sin (1 John 1:8), but the Christian life is not to be identified by a life of sin. Believers are a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17). We have the Holy Spirit in us producing good fruit (Galatians 5:22-23). A Christian life should be a changed life. I would have serious doubts about a person who claims to be a believer yet lives a life that says otherwise. Christians are forgiven no matter how many times they sin, but at the same time Christians should live a progressively more holy life as they grow closer to Christ.

Everyone has been wronged, offended, and sinned against at some point in life. How are we to respond when such offenses occur? According to the Bible, we are to forgive. Ephesians 4:32 declares, “Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.” Similarly, Colossians 3:13 proclaims, “Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.” The key in both Scriptures is that we are to forgive others, as God as forgiven us. Why do we forgive? Because we have been forgiven!Forgiveness would be simple if we only had to grant it to those who come asking for it in sorrow and repentance. The Bible tells us that we are to forgive those who sin against us, without condition. Refusing to truly forgive a person demonstrates resentment, bitterness, and anger – none of which should be the traits of a Christian. In the Lord's Prayer, we ask God to forgive us our sins, just as we forgive those who sin against us (Matthew 6:12). Jesus said in Matthew 6:14-15, “If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins.” In light of other Scriptures that speak of God’s forgiveness, Matthew 6:14-15 is best understood to be saying that people who refuse to forgive others have likely not truly experienced God’s forgiveness themselves.

I hope this helps a little, forgiveness is both one of the greatest gifts that God gives us and one of the greatest gift that we can give. Sorry about the wordy reply.

Where do I find the spiritual gift assesment on the website?

My wife and I are new members and I would like to know where I might fit in at the Vineyard.

Hi Tim,I was looking at our to do list from when we moved everything to this site from the old site and we missed the test. Sorry about that.

We will have it up tomorrow. Thursday the 8th.

Thanks for letting us know.

Don

Hi Tim,

The Spiritual Gift Assessment Survey is now up (migrated from old site).

I was talking with a co-worker and wondered about how holy Joseph and Mary were to be considered the parents of what is referred to as "The Holy Family". I've heard Mary was raised by the religious establishment of the day. Can you shed some light on this?

i need help. i am a teen mother and am due any day now and need supllies badly. can u help me?

Dear Rebecca,Hopefully you have already been contacted in regards to you situation. Our compassion ministry has many different programs to help people who need help. More information can be found on these programs in the compassion section of the website

I'm not sure if I submitted my question properly so I am going to ask it again.

I currently belong to a small group and a question came up about the old testament. My first question is why didn't God just send Jesus the first time - I'm thinking we weren't ready as humans to accept Jesus yet, and my other question is about the old testament. When the new testament was written, was much of the old testament proven obsolete? In other words, I know Jesus fulfilled the old testament's prophesy of the messiah but did the rest of the laws defining spiritual obedience change with Jesus?

I am a new member of VCNP. I have noticed some confusing information about the founder of the Vineyard movement-Wimber and the Toronto Airport Vineyard church led by the Arnots. Apparently they were part of the counterfiet revival movement in the 1980s and 1990s which preached/practiced strange things such as holy laughter, being 'stuck to the floor like glue' for hours or days, being drunk in the spirit, barking like dogs, etc. all of which were supposed to be signs of the Holy Spirit being present. I find these practices to be rather strange and I believe that they are not signs from God, but I have not seen anything like this going on at VCNP. We've been searching for a church to call home for a long time, and we fell in love with VCNP. I would appreciate it if someone could clarify what the church's beliefs are regarding these practices.

Dear Cami,The “Toronto Blessing” was a difficult and challenging time for the Vineyard movement. What exactly happened and how it was handled is best covered in the book “The Quest for the Radical Middle” by Bill Jackson. It is very honest in covering the mistakes that were made. In general the story is that the Toronto Vineyard began to experience what was thought by many to be a powerful move of the Holy Spirit. Whether this started as a move of God or not is debatable, but what isn’t debatable, at least from a Vineyard perspective, is that the Toronto church leaders led this “Toronto Blessing” in a way that the Vineyard movement, including John Wimber, wasn’t comfortable with.

The Vineyard board held an emergency meeting in 1994, to address the “excesses” that they saw in Toronto. They came up with a statement which they sent to the Toronto leadership which said in part:

• The Vineyard has always tried to “bless what the Father is doing” and will continue to invite the Holy Spirit to come with a willingness to pastor the results.
• We should definitely not try to explain a non-biblical manifestation with biblical allusion or “proof text”.
• We should never promote manifestations in any way, but focus on the main and the plain issues of Scripture, such as the fruit and gifts of the Spirit, evangelism and church planting. We are after a long-term fruit, not experiences. If God has truly touched a person, he or she should go home talking about Jesus, not about falling and shaking. The result of true renewal will be seen in new passion for Jesus, and the words and works of the kingdom.
• We don’t want church life to revolve around renewal meetings. We want to stick to what we are about – making disciples and church planting.
• The Vineyard should refrain from equating any movement of the Spirit with any particular eschatological scheme such as the beginning of a great end-time revival.

This report was sent to the Toronto leadership and when it wasn’t followed the Vineyard’s endorsement of the Toronto church was withdrawn and they were no longer allowed to call themselves a Vineyard church.

There have been several books, and articles, that have been written over the years about the Vineyard movement. John Wimber was a lighting rod in many ways for people, particularly for people who believed that spiritual gifts ceased at some time in the past and so in their minds, any working of spiritual gifts or any manifestation of the Holy Spirit is automatically dismissed as evil. I believe some of the people who wrote these things are well-intentioned, but perhaps ill-informed, some of these writers, I think, are just people who want God to stay in the box they have made for Him. Over the years theologians (some Vineyard, some not) have come out with books and papers defending Wimber and the Vineyard movement, some of these are on the Vineyard USA website (vineyardusa.org).

All in all I would say look at the fruit if you want to see the health of a tree. Are people being saved? Are people being discipled and becoming more like Christ? Are the poor and disenfranchised being ministered to? Is the Good News being preached? Is the Kingdom of God advancing around the world and pushing back the darkness? If this is happening, and I believe it is, could this happen without God’s blessing? I don’t think so.

I hope this at least in a small way answers your question and again I highly recommend that you read “The Quest for the Radical Middle” is you want a more thorough explanation of what happened there.

With His Love, Tom Quaid

I have been divorce for 9 years and as a former Southern Baptist Deacon I had great concerns as to remarrying. After Pray and study I believe that a wife sent by the Lord would be a blessing, but I am struggling finding a woman of substance. I have tried the internet dating thing and it is a disaster. Do we have a singles ministry at the vineyard that is geared towards mature men and women ( 40- 60) I know that the best place to meet someone would be at my church home. I fell there are many in our church who are looking for someone.

Dear Jamie,

Most of the people who participate in our Single’s ministry (both the small groups and the events) are somewhere between 30 and 55 although any single adult is welcome. Many of the people under 30 are more involved in the Young Adult events then the Single’s events. I hope you can start getting involved in some of the Single’s events. You may also want to get involved in ministries which involve a lot of people (like greeting, the bookstore, the coffee bar) which is another way to meet some great people. You can find out about upcoming Single’s Events on the website Single's Ministry or just keep an eye on the bulletin.

we are a music ministry out of surprise az we were wondering how to obtain a booking at your fellowshipwww.myspace.com/terrydianemccabe thanks! the mccabes 623-225-6991

We have never attended your lovely church but do go to church occasionally. Hoever, someone I met on the street, who saw me crying and sat and talked with me for a little while, told me to contact you, because you could help us. My family is in SEVERE financial trouble. It's so bad that we will soon be homeless(probably by the end of this month-NOVEMBER) unless someone can help us! We have no money even to get us through so we can go to work. Our bank account is really overdrawn because of so much debt and really bad financial decisions which were made out of fear all the debt we are under, just to pay the bills and so when our pay checks go in direct deposit, it's all eaten away and we not only have nothing left, we are overdrawn again. We are desperate as we have 3 daughters and no one in our family that can help. PLEASE, i'm begging you, for my family's sake, is there anything you can do to help us not end up on the street? We have been prayig, seems all the time, but things just seem to get worse. I submitted a prayer request online but have received nothing back from it. I don't even know if you got it. Please, someone reply as soon as possible as we are quickly running out of time.

Sincerely,

The Ward Family
623-698-3598
E-Mail: babyjo537@yahoo.com

I am not sure this is the correct spot for this but I didn't find any other place to comment. The Mind of Christ class has only one more week to go. This is an awesome intense class. I doubt that anyone that has participated for the past 12 weeks could say they haven't grown spiritually during this class.

Are we going to have other classes in 2008 which go deep? I understand there are those that don't like to commit for that length of time, but this class has proven to me that for many a longer class is necessary for extensive growth. Please consider! See you there!

Dear Dleainaz,

We will actually have a few deeper discipleship classes in 2008. You may want to talk with Sonia Dodd, the teacher for the Mind of Christ class, as she is teaching a couple of them.

If you do not already do so, I would encourage you to look into attending a Bible Study small group. While longer classes tend to foster extensive growth, most small groups function in that capacity on a weekly basis. Small groups typically provide a good place to grow and meet for longer periods of time than the average Sunday morning class.

We do have catalog that lists of all Spring 2008 classes available just across from the small group wall in the foyer of the Main Auditorium. I would encourage you to pick up one of those to see all of our discpleship classes for the Spring as well.

If you have further questions, please contact me, Dave McPherson, at the church office.

Blessings,

Dave McPherson

HiI have a friend who is a King James only fan. He says that any other Bible is just wrong. Any thoughts on this? He realy dislikes the NIV.ThanksDave

Dave,

That's a tough one. I know a few people who strongly believe that the KJV is the only real/valid translation of the Bible as well. Honestly, very little shakes their boat. People who hold that belief really can't hold on to history very well. While it is true that the KJV is a great translation for its time (17th Century AD), it is certainly not the best translation available. King James I (early 1600s) commissioned the translation of the Bible into English to further his campaign for an English Reformed Church that would be independent of Catholic and/or Papal control. It was not translated with the best ancient manuscripts available in its time, nor the best manuscripts available today. With the somewhat recent discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, scholars have better, more reliable manuscripts that date back closer to the original documents.

It sounds like your friend is really holding on to a version of the Bible that was translated somewhere between 1600 and 3000 years after the original documents were written. I don't know if I have that much faith in any of the modern translations. However, I do have that much faith in the Bible and its reliability. Through better than two thousand years of history, it has been the best preserved book.

As far as which translation is the best, I don't know if there is any one perfect translation. Every translation has its strengths and shortcomings. Personally, I think the NKJV is a better translation than the KJV, as it takes into consideration more recent archeological findings (like the Dead Sea Scrolls) and follows modern translation practices. I tend to like the NIV, but it was written for reading coprehension more than it was intended to be a word-by-word translation. I can see how your friend might not like the NIV because it wasn't translated word-by-word, but rather was translated phrase-by-phrase. I also like the NASB (the version that Pastor Brian uses a lot) -- it tends to translate word for word well, but can be a little harder to comprehend as ancient Greek and Hebrew gramatical structure does not necessarily follow our modern subject/verb/verb compliment word order. Most scholars tend to use the NRSV (New Revised Standard Version) for their base English translation. It, too, can be a little harder to understand, though.

Don't know if that helps or muddies the water. I would be more than glad to help you further if I can, though.

Blessings,

Dave McPherson

All of us are painfully aware of our stalling economy.I was wondering if VCNP would consider hosting a Buisiness and or job fair.Im sure that most of us would like to do buisiness with fellow Christians and church members if we have the chance to.Would this kind of event put the church in a possible liability situation?What if it was organized independantly and didnt use church staff or funds to support it?

Thank you George Fry

I have a question. Are you guys having your family harvest festival this year on Oct. 31st?

Hi Nichole,

No the Family Fest is cancelled this year due to the on campus construction that we are in the middle of. You may want to look into some alternatives. We have listed some possible alternatives in this article. I would double check them before you head that way to make sure they are still going to happen.

vineyardnorthphoenix.com/story/2417

Thanks for asking.
Don